A Wheelie Good Chat
A Wheelie Good Chat is hosted by me, Sam Cole. I dive into real-life experiences of living with a physical disability.
With raw honesty and a touch of humour, I explore everything from daily challenges to societal assumptions, shining a light on the stories that often go unheard.
Each episode features open conversations and reflections that aim to break barriers, challenge the norm and inspire more inclusive thinking, one chat at a time.
Follow along on Instagram: @awheeliegoodchat | @sam.bamalama
A Wheelie Good Chat
33. Same App, Different Struggles with Sophie Brewer
In this episode, I sit down with my friend Sophie to chat about our very different experiences on dating apps, me as a woman with a disability, and her as an able-bodied woman.
From hiding my wheelchair in profile pics to getting invasive questions like “Can you feel it?” in the first few messages, I share what it’s really like trying to date in a world that often overlooks women with a disability. Meanwhile, Sophie deals with the usual ghosting and bad banter.
We talk about how ableism shows up even in digital spaces, how exhausting it can be to explain accessibility needs, and why being seen as “inspiring” just for dating isn’t the compliment people think it is.
It’s raw, real, and definitely not your average dating chat.
Thanks so much for listening to A Wheelie Good Chat! Your support means the world.
Follow along on Instagram: @awheeliegoodchat | @sam.bamalama
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I want to start this episode of A Really Good Chat by acknowledging that I'm recording on Whadjuk, noongar country. I pay my respects to the Elders, past, present and emerging. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land. I'm your host, sam Cole, and this is A Really Good Chat where I get real about life with a disability and everything in between yes, even the not so PG stuff. I live with a condition called dystonia and I started this podcast to break stigma and share the things we as a society don't talk enough about. Hey everyone, I'm really excited for today's episode as I've got a very special person to me and a very special guest on the episode today. She's been on previously, I think, episodes 16 and 20. So welcome back to Sophie. Hello, hello, thank you for having me again. Always a pleasure. Yeah, so have you been. What's been happening since your last episode, which was a while ago now, maybe over a year ago? It?
Speaker 2:was a long time ago. I've been good I finished my degree, which is good, and just been doing like a little bit of work and then I'm planning on going away a little bit of a holiday, which is good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, quite a decent chunk of time as well. Hey, it is, it is yeah. So you finished your degree, which is really exciting. So you're a fully qualified teacher.
Speaker 1:I am, believe it or not, out in the big bad world, she is so strapping kiddos yeah, literally watch out watch out, all right, but I thought it would be a good opportunity to have Soph back to explore dating apps and our own experiences of them and how they differ from each other, because you know, obviously I'm on dating apps but you know, sophie has previously been on dating apps, but I don't think you are currently yes, no, I'm not on them currently, but I have been previously.
Speaker 2:I've had my fair share.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I thought a kind of a good starting point for flooring this kind of dating app topic is what you have put on your profile you think is of important to the other person to see, I feel like for me, mine is very like well, I'm not an overly serious person, so I try and make my profile like reflect that, like not too serious, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:So I'll have like some photos with me and my friends or, to be fair, I actually have. I find this problem, like previously when I was on dating apps like I don't actually have many photos of just myself, so actually majority of them are me and my friends, and then I'll usually put like I don't know if it's changed at all, but like when I was on a hinge, you had like the prompts and then most of them were like very unserious, like none of them actually meant anything, it was just like random yes, for sure.
Speaker 1:So like very light-hearted is that you weren't looking for anything serious, or because you just like didn't really think hinge was or dating apps were a place to find someone that you could actually see your future with.
Speaker 2:I actually don't know, because well, like technically speaking, I have met someone on a dating app but we kind of had like mutuals beforehand anyway and then we obviously eventuated into dating like later down the track, but we did also have mutuals. So I don't know if we still would have met if we, if I wasn't on the dating app.
Speaker 2:So it wasn't necessarily that I wasn't looking any for anything. It was more just like I don't know. I feel like for me, like being serious, and this is probably just like a personal thing like being serious, it just makes me feel like a little bit uncomfortable, but I don't know why yeah, and like having to be vulnerable and going, oh yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm looking for a life partner. This is what I want their traits to have. Yeah, for sure yeah, absolutely like.
Speaker 2:I would much rather just like put on a front that, like it's just a bit of fun, even if I was or wasn't looking for something absolutely no, I can totally understand that.
Speaker 1:Would that be different?
Speaker 2:for like. Would you put the same things on your profile?
Speaker 1:yeah, well, I can absolutely relate to like the whole being silly, like pretty sure, my prompts are always very light hearted, not very serious at all.
Speaker 1:I think I did speak about this in my previous episode, or previous dating episode, which was very early on in my podcast journey about the fact that when I started on dating apps I never put photos of me in my wheelchair because I was kind of like I guess I was ashamed of that side of me and then if they wanted to meet up then I would tell them, yeah, okay, that is a tough one to kind of say out loud. So back then I think I was just kind of like masking my own insecurities, of like putting a face on the guys we want to see. I thought, nah, no one wants to see a girl in the wheelchair on dating apps. It's a bit uncomfortable for them and for me they're more self-love and self-worth. I kind of have gotten to a point where I'm like, no, this photo is quite nice for me in my wheelchair. You know, yeah, and it is a part of me controlling the whole, not wanting to be too serious and just I guess the whole vulnerable side of it?
Speaker 2:yeah, I feel like it's always easier to pretend like you don't care. Even if you do, do you know what I?
Speaker 1:mean definitely, absolutely, absolutely. I don't want to seem like I care for someone who's on a dating app doing like it's just too raw.
Speaker 2:Do you think, like your conversations and the people you've matched with, do you reckon that's changed from when you were trying to portray yourself a certain way, compared to like now, where you're feel more comfortable and obviously more confident, like, do you feel like the people and the conversations uh, have changed, or is it all pretty similar?
Speaker 1:it's probably kind of filters out the ones who clearly are very uncomfortable with disability strata other than before, where you know I was just posting photos of, you know, my top half as in like a selfie or whatever give the people what they want, sam seriously oh no, that's a different app.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I think early on like I would have just got I don't think I would have got anyone obviously had to be someone's type for them to yeah, no, be interested in me. Yeah, having it now. It definitely filters out people who are just dicks when they first message about very straightforward questions. I definitely, yeah, get the ones who are over curious, yes, or just nosy, yeah, yeah, I feel like with with any dating apps, there's always going to be people who pinpoint different aspects of people. Or does this make sense? Like, as in so say, someone has red hair, for example, and someone doesn't like people with red hair. They're not going to swipe on them. Yeah, let me loop back.
Speaker 1:I feel like people who do put themselves out on dating apps. It definitely is an element of. I'm not saying that they're brave or they're whatever, but it does take a lot of courage to put yourself out there. Um and no, be very selective of who you maybe match with or be open to conversations. No, not everyone's gonna like respond to the red hair girl or the girl in the wheelchair. You know it's kind of you've got to filter through them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no I don't really know if that makes sense. No, it definitely does. I felt that's the same with, like, if you were starting up like a social media platform, like you're always going to be, like you're exposing yourself to criticism almost yeah, no, like you're exposing yourself to rejection I should say yeah, no, that's a good way of saying it.
Speaker 1:And I guess, like a good kind of question is for me, the symbolism of a wheelchair in photos. Is it a bold statement to have it on there? I think back in the day early on, when I was, like you know, starting out my dating app journey real journey, my dating app, career, career yeah, I was going to say career. Yeah, sure, it was definitely a bold statement probably more of a scary statement for me to actually put those photos on my profile. But now I don't really see it as a bold statement because I think it's part of me and that's something that I'm embracing. Someone can't be accepting of it actually an alligator. On the other hand, I can understand, I guess from my experience I can understand why someone wouldn't want to put it on there to protect themselves to, I guess, to see in air quotes normal and not have to disclose that so early on in their chat.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I feel like, from like, obviously, my perspective, like you posting like, like photos of you in your wheelchair, like on a dating app, like it is definitely not like a well, from my perspective, it's not like a bold statement because, like to, for me that's like a photo of you. Do you know what?
Speaker 2:I mean Like it's not like, oh, that's a photo of Sam in a wheelchair. Like that's just a photo of Sam. I obviously you for that like for who you are and it's like. So from my perspective it's not a bold statement, but I can understand how you were saying you don't necessarily want to like putting like those photos out. It's not a statement but it almost exposes you to like I know we've had these conversations like in private, like people who are like over curious or don't know how to have mature conversations. It's almost like exposing you to people being like asking questions that they don't necessarily have the I don't know what the right word is but they don't really like have the right to ask and say these things they don't.
Speaker 2:They don't have yeah, sorry, they don't have like the awareness of like how to yeah, I think from that perspective, like definitely like some of the messages that you receive is just like number one rude and number two just like not appropriate. So I do get it from that perspective, but that's just people in society Like from the other end, not you from the other end, being that's their wrong. No, that makes perfect sense. Yeah.
Speaker 1:More like people are. I guess they haven't had the privilege I don't want to say privilege, no privilege, I'd say privilege the privilege of like knowing someone with a disability, like whatever form that is, and they just think it's their God-given right to like ask such invasive personal questions when it's far okay to do that. Yes, and I'm one of those people who cause them out on that bullshit, because I can 100% handle it. I am absolutely fine with saying that's not acceptable. Would you say that to me if you saw me in person? Yeah, and nine times out of ten they're like oh yeah, I would, I would, I'm like. Would you really, though, like that to someone's face? Yeah, would it be a form of bullying?
Speaker 2:I think if it's repeated, yeah, like if it's the same person repeating the same action, like if they've said something you've been like, nah, that's not on, and then they've repeated the same thing again and again. I think because technically I don't want to get into definitions here, but technically bullying is like any repeated action from somebody who has? Like a higher power to put somebody else down. So I feel like if it was the same person repeating that, then yeah yeah, true yeah, maybe not.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's also just like a lack of awareness yeah, I think we know what we're trying to say hopefully so I guess a good question for you, soph like what's something that you've never had to consider. You know, when you were creating like your profile, or like your prompts or something or your photos that you put on. Like what's something that you've never had to consider?
Speaker 2:that's actually a good question that I've never had to consider. I mean, I feel like from my perspective, like obviously everyone like deep down does like care about what other people think as much as we shouldn't. So I feel like I do still like portray myself in a way that which, to be fair, I probably wouldn't do this as much anymore, but when I was on dating apps, I feel like I was portraying myself in a way that I thought people would want to see, kind of, but I was still I would say I was still like pretty authentic at the same time.
Speaker 1:Moving on from, like the whole photos and prompts and that I guess another question to I guess pose to you. So are bios and photos judged differently when you don't fit the expected mould?
Speaker 2:As in from like. Are they judged differently from the well, in my case, the male's perspective, yes, yeah, okay, I feel like they would be. I don't know if this sounds weird or not, but I could almost kind of tell a guy's preference and like intention and things, what they initially reacted to, for example, like I would have like a variety of photos on my account or like prompts as well, and I feel like you can kind of tell, like how you're being perceived from there or what photo they initially react to or what prompt they initially react to or what they say. There was definitely, I remember a few times, obviously everyone has preferences and that is so fine, but there was like a few times that I because, like I said at the start, like I had lots of photos of me and my friends and there was like a few times where my friends are obviously all beautiful Like a guy would comment on my friend and be like oh, what's her name, and I'm like what do you want me to say to?
Speaker 1:that yes, no, I get that.
Speaker 2:I've seen it To answer that question like question, like yeah, like their reaction and their conversation, if I'm not their type, their vibe was almost different and like what they reacted to what photo?
Speaker 1:would be different. Yes, and their initial message was like directed towards you, or?
Speaker 2:your profile. Yes, it would be something random, it wouldn't? Be like hi, how are you or a comment on that specific photo being like something in the background or one of my friends, or something?
Speaker 1:yeah, what about you? I definitely agree with what you're saying for me. So I've definitely got guys message on a photo of me with my friends or something like that, saying you're really inspiring. What, yeah, yeah, so I get inspired quite a lot on dating apps Inspiring hanging out with your friends?
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:And then obviously I wouldn't match them. What? Because it would give me a bit of a yucky vibe right now.
Speaker 2:Oh my goodness, yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you just say like, like, do you not have friendships? Why is that inspiring?
Speaker 1:yeah, honestly what. And I like obviously I've already spoken it on here about how the word inspiring just gives me a bit of the it. Yeah, I'm not your inspo porn mate, but yeah, it's just. Yeah, it's really interesting how, just because I'm in a wheelchair and I'm out with friends, I have photos of my friends on my profile.
Speaker 2:That's seen as inspiring when you compare that to the reactions that I for pretty much all my photos with my friends and it's perceived as just like a typical photo, like I never get any comments of, like I have never once had someone say I'm inspiring because I posted a photo with my friend.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and, and it doesn't make sense because, like, who would want to see a profile of just all your own face? Yeah, that's giving a loser. I'm sorry if you do that. It's just a bit of an itch. Yeah, you've got to break it up, like you don't? Yeah, you do. It's all about variety here right now. So the next thing I've got here, um, on my notes is how we both interpretate the swipe logic.
Speaker 2:Yes, that is actually a really good question, obviously, like attraction is still like a massive part of a relationship and like you can to some extent pick up someone's like vibe from their profile. But also, in saying that, like I feel like when I'm texting people like I can't really say, like not that I can't say what I want to say, but I'm always like misinterpretation is so easy to happen. So it's like I could say one thing and someone could interpret it completely different. And that could be happening with me in somebody else's profile. If I was like swiping, do you know what I mean? So I could like misinterpret it and be like no, but they could actually be a great human.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I've just like misinterpreted something or like judged them off one photo, which is a horrible thing to do, but that is what the swipe logic is, is judging someone off a photo? Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1:I don't know what you think about that, yeah, someone off a photo.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely. I don't know what you think about that. Yeah, it is, but I guess it's just the way our society at the moment just plays. Yeah, oh well. Nah, I didn't mean to be so. Nah, it's a very good point, I guess. Just once again, our different experiences of the swiping. When people see me, I try and put like my first photo as me in my wheelchair, like to make it clear, so you know, I guess they know I'm in a wheelchair, you know I'm not hiding that. Yes, yeah, yeah. So I guess the guys who are on the dating app and my profile comes across and they're like, oh girl no, no, no no, no, not a girl in a wheelchair.
Speaker 1:So that would immediately say no, without kind of giving a second thought, which is so fine, like because I guess I'll never see them or see their profile again.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's sad in the sense that it is a judgment, but it's almost like a blessing in disguise in some circumstances, where it's like, if they can't give that, like give you the time of day, then they don't necessarily deserve you in their life do you know what I mean. Like yeah absolutely we don't want to judge. If the reason is because you're in a wheelchair and that's the reason they've swiped, then it's kind of like their loss, but still bad on them, their loss shameless, exactly.
Speaker 1:Catch you later. Like you said it's. It is very much a like a swipe culture. You know, I guess we're not here to unpack it. No, we've only got that initial six pictures, three prompts, on hinge. So let's give them the most realistic. Yeah, and if that is your fun, quirky self, then that's what they see. But then I yeah, it is hard to kind of, I guess, really make it clear I'm more than a girl in the wheelchair.
Speaker 2:But like you know, like you said, it's their loss yeah, like if that's all they see, then that's on them, but also like they shouldn't see that. But that's a whole bigger fish to fry, unfortunately yeah, got time for that one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I guess this is probably moving down from like the messaging and the vibe shift as soon as someone matches with with me, and I guess the first thing is a bit of a fetish or a bit of a pity kind of thing, because I feel sometimes I certainly have had a handful of guys almost like on the fetish side which is so weird to um even say, just the way that they ask questions and then I address it and then they come back around and still want to know more rather than just like leaving it, moving on and it's done.
Speaker 1:but no, they're like really kind of wanting to really know more about how my sex life works and that, and I'm like I answer it.
Speaker 2:And then why are we still talking about it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I feel like that's a massive difference that I've noticed. It's like, well, when I was on dating apps, I very rarely, if ever, got somebody like straight up say something of a sexual nature, not even after we had been talking for a little bit, whereas, like when we have had private conversations, from what I interpret like people who you're matching with, they think they have the right to just go straight in like straight in deep with the sexual questions and then continue to ask them once you've answered them. That's when I'm like this isn't. This doesn't seem quite right, like something seems a bit off about this because that's so interesting.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely yeah, it's just so interesting because I just thought that guys on dating apps, they just want to, really, I guess, see where we're at yeah, don't get me wrong, like, I think I like would have matched with people who had that intention.
Speaker 2:But I think the way that they approached it or like, was just complete. Like they would be like, oh, like would love to see you, and then they would try and do. You know what I mean? It wouldn't be like straight up. Do you want to do this? Yeah, right okay how does it work? No, you don't get. How does it work?
Speaker 1:No, yeah, so that's a very common one. I get how does it work? I?
Speaker 2:still can't believe. Yeah, can I feel it? Can you feel it? What was the one that you got the other week? Oh, um, I can't remember.
Speaker 1:Oh, if I touch it, oh yeah, if I touch or could beg your pardon.
Speaker 2:That wasn't like the first three text messages that he had sent you yeah, yeah like you matched hi, how are you good? How are you good, thank you, if I touch it doesn't work, can you feel it? Yeah, yeah, like that to me is just so mind-boggling. Yeah, like, yeah, I'm good, thank you. Yeah, my favorite color is, uh, yellow. Like, can we have a little bit of small talk first, and then you answered that. You will not answer that. I'm sure you did, but, like you know, addressed I addressed it I didn't like give him the full the female
Speaker 2:yeah anatomy, yeah, anatomy, but you did address the question, yeah, and then he continuously came back.
Speaker 1:Yeah, see, that to me is just like I feel like that says like a lot about him.
Speaker 2:Yes, oh yeah, 100. You're literally just like a human on hinge and he's gone out of his way.
Speaker 1:It's nothing on you, it's a hundred percent on him yeah, and I think we were talking about this the other week about being ghosted and or like being ghosted or ghosting someone, and I'll 100 say that I've been on both ends of the scale there. I know it's really bad to go someone, but sometimes it's just easier in the long run to go someone, because exposing myself really here.
Speaker 1:It's really it's so much easier to to go someone if we're just chatting and like. So we met up once and they get a bit of a I guess fixation with with me. It's just so much easier to say catch you later or sorry, not to say catch you later, just kind of like block them, because I guess I'm predicting my my own self rather than having to explain why yes, yeah, you do have to like look after yourself as well.
Speaker 2:You do love a block though. Yeah, see, when from past experiences, when I have I kill me, like shoot me, I don't care, I have ghosted someone before, but like I I don't think I've ever blocked. Or actually, when I was on dating apps, I would just unmatch. If they were like weird, oh yeah. But like, when it comes to like social media or like guys who I've been like talking to, maybe caught up, I don't think I've ever blocked.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 2:And you love a block? Yeah, I do so, go you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's quite a powerful move blocking someone and then they like email you yeah, yeah, yeah. Or I block someone and then they message me on my podcast Instagram. I'm like, okay, why are you?
Speaker 2:Maybe let's just pick up some social cues here yeah, definitely lacking in that area.
Speaker 1:You definitely have been ghosted or unmatched, which is so fine after I maybe disclose a bit more about my disability and like no, I guess if we were to catch up like the logistics of meeting up and how that would look in that area. Like that's pretty a shitty kind of feeling to be ghosted in that aspect being open with someone and then all of a sudden like they just kind of like yeah, too hard, that's too much for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah no, that is I a hundred percent. Like you can see where you're coming from. That would be so tricky and I suppose that's not something that I've necessarily really thought about or considered. Yeah, and it's a bit hypocritical. So we're just sitting there saying that we ghost people Not like. But there's a difference between ghosting someone because they're being creepy yes and ghosting someone because of like their ability.
Speaker 1:They part of me that I can't help. Yeah, yeah, they can help me in creepy. Yes, yes, 100 like learn, like you said, social cues go a long way, and I guess from your perspective, is there anything that you often get blocked. Well, that too, or um? I wrote about a concern about disclosing certain things. I, I don't think so.
Speaker 2:I mean, I like to think of myself as a pretty open book. So I don't think so. No, that's, yeah, that's good, that's really good, my inability to know actors and actresses.
Speaker 1:Well, honestly, we've got some work to do on that one.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, difference in experience, like I feel like I have always been comfortable in being quite open and being. This is who I am and I feel like it's a shame that you have struggled doing that and it's because of people's reactions to like people blocking you or ghosting you or like unmatching with you and then that would like deeply, I imagine obviously I don't know, but I would assume then that would like deeply I imagine, obviously I don't know, but I would assume that that would like instill some fear to do and like affect you in the future, like to do that again because it's like nobody wants to get rejected or we know that that's their loss.
Speaker 1:Yeah, still rejection, still like it's a shit thing definitely, and I totally know the fact that I don't like being vulnerable on the dating apps and that probably does come into play because of those experiences.
Speaker 2:Oh, so it kind of tread lightly.
Speaker 1:So we've spoken about the messaging side of things, the profile side of things, and then I think like a good kind of direction to kind of go in after that is the planning, our first date, oh, and I guess, once again, our differing experiences and things that we have to consider for me. So I need to consider if someone's free to take me, how long would they be free for they being my gals? Yeah, those are the kind of things. Where are we meeting? If they're like, oh, it's congou dinner, I make a a joke out of it. It's not my eating day, kind of thing, because obviously I need assistance with food and that. So that's a bit of a tough one to kind of overcome. So I just catch up with drinks because once again, it's just protecting myself about that kind of side of it yeah, no, that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Like you don't want to be uncomfortable, you don't know this person, like you don't want them assisting you with things that you don't feel comfortable with them assisting you, I feel like that's fair enough to say yeah, but you also don't want, like someone you do feel comfortable with sitting through the whole date, like that is also so to help you eat. Like that's just not a reasonable ask, like a little fly on the wall. So I completely get that. But it must be also annoying, because sometimes you must be like, oh my god, I just really want some food, yeah, especially like you know when you're drinking once you've had one.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm like this has gone through to my head I would like some chippies. Obviously, my gals are like really accommodating and like supportive of I need to catch up with someone or if I've got a date or whatever we're supportive of your dating life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah, which is great. No, you've got to have those supportive friends. I'll just do a quick summary, just because I can't remember if I've said it. So the kind of things that I need to consider is like where is it going to be? Like, what are we actually going to be doing? Do they actually know the logistics?
Speaker 1:When someone says, oh, let's go out for a date, and they're like, oh, come and pick you up, I'm like, oh, it's like no, let's not do that once again, like that's being too vulnerable, too soon, I'm just like hell, no, let's just steady on the brakes a bit. So I have had people offer to pick me up, but I just don't feel, I guess, comfortable in that realm of coming and picking me up. Just I guess, even if they are really lovely and accommodating, it's just still a scary thing for me to have to explain the whole situation and I'm like and then I kind of get in my own head about it. I feel bad that they have to do so much for me, but that's my own issue yeah, I thought that's a tricky one.
Speaker 2:You shouldn't feel bad. But in saying that, how many dates do you think it would be for it for them to come pick you up, share some food together, like, do you think it's like a few days?
Speaker 1:definitely, say a good few days, yeah, and then you know, I'm sure, like when they pick me up probably before that I would have felt comfortable for them to assist me for food. Yeah, I feel like food before they're picking me up. I feel like there there certainly is this kind of misconception about the needing of extra planning on my end, but that meaning that I'm not interested. Yeah, yeah, because I guess the fact that like no, maybe there's only certain times that no one of my gals are free and so they're like, oh, I'm only free in this window and it might not seem like I'm really interested, and then that kind of results in me just kind of pulling, or yeah, let's be honest, it is me pulling back. I pull back to protect myself more than them pulling back.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so my kind of thing is me pulling back because I'm just like this is too hard, just a lot, a lot to think about just to catch up with someone, and I suppose it would be like the same thing for like last minute, kind of like catch-ups, like if they were like oh, what are you doing tonight? Well, hang on a second, exactly, let me get my life in order, where are we going?
Speaker 2:And it's like even things that I don't know if you mentioned this but like is the place accessible? For example, when we went to I can't remember the name of that place we went to in the city, but it's like if you had gone there for a first date, like they didn't have low tables, they didn, they didn't have a lift, and that's like even more things for you to like have to think about, which is like that's just bad on that business's behalf, obviously, but it kind of limits the like last-minute catch-ups or like the spontaneous little you know, and yeah, I can see how you don't want to have to. If they then kept asking and it's like, oh no, I'm not available here, I'm not available here, like no, I can't do tonight. And it's like, oh no, I'm not available here, I'm not available here, like no, I can't do tonight. It's kind of like they're misinterpreting that as or she's not interested in reality. It's just like give me a week time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly three days, to just sort myself out, exactly, and it's a shame that they that misinterpretation and I think that kind of draws into how much when someone says, oh, let's hang out, you know it does take an emotional toll after a while and I have to be mentally okay to be on dating apps because to catch up, to organize, to make sure I'm okay to be explaining my I don't want to say my limitations but, like I guess, the support I need, yeah, it's a lot.
Speaker 1:I don't like to be negative, so I kind of put a bit of a different kind of turn on when they ask let's hang out kind of thing, a bit of a different kind of turn on it. When they ask let's hang out kind of thing, it really does depend on the vibe and if I feel comfortable the conversation is flowing, all those kind of things. But it would be interesting to, I guess, hear from you. I guess you kind of have already kind of said you have reflected on the E's, the things that you haven't had to think about when going on a date.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel like it's something that I've definitely like taken for granted, like being oblivious at it, while I have this privilege of like not having to think about all the different things and I can just be like, yeah, sure, like, do you want to pick me up?
Speaker 1:yeah, we already have kind of covered this in a roundabout way.
Speaker 2:So when rejection feels personal and how much is on, you know you slash me and how much is ableism from my experience, like when I was on dating apps, like I never really took the rejection personally I don't think. I think it was more just like I don don't know why, like it never really bothered me.
Speaker 1:Fear, loss kind of thing, move on.
Speaker 2:And then what else was?
Speaker 1:there, how much is you and how much ableism?
Speaker 2:From my experience, I haven't taken the rejection personally and I think that if I was rejected by someone, I would. I think it depends on the situation, like if I had done something obviously but I always just view it as just like we're not a match or, yeah, like I never really view it as like a personal, it's just kind of like, okay, we weren't a match or this didn't align. Yeah, no, that makes perfect sense. What?
Speaker 1:about you? I think it really does depend on. I think for me, early on in my dating app journey I would have 100, 100% thought it was me, it's all my fault If I wasn't in a wheelchair. Surely we would have been more compatible, they would have been more interested. I can't think like that because it's not realistic. Now I'm really kind of saying to, I guess, for the past five or so years, really recognize that it is more so ableism and guys just not being, I guess, comfortable with disability and not being around disability, to see that it's okay for someone with differences to be on dating apps and to have on their profile pictures of them in their bikini. And I definitely want to say there have definitely been some lovely guys on the apps.
Speaker 1:It's not on Slander, no, no, no, no no you sound like I'm slandering and you're probably thinking why is she even on the app?
Speaker 1:no, some good things yeah so in regards to the ableism I think you said before actually about how, like we're, no one's really comfortable with being judged, so the fact that the first thing that they see is a girl in a wheelchair, people have already got these preconceived ideas of me and my ability, which is really kind of hard to, I guess, change their perspective in the way that like, okay, so obviously I've got photos in my wheelchair and then quite often people think I'm a lot more independent than I am in the realm of.
Speaker 1:They think I can push my own wheelchair, they think I can drive, which is a tough one to have to change that perspective of them because I don't want to be so vulnerable like before and be that open and go. Oh, I actually know quite often they're surprised that I don't drive or that I need to organise a lift somewhere by my photos, maybe you know they just presume that I can use my hands or my arms to full capacity, that they're meant to, yeah, so they're often quite taken back by the fact that I'm unable to do things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you probably don't want to have to like explain yourself to be like well, no, this is why I'm doing this, and that wouldn't be like a nice feeling being like oh my gosh, why do I? Have to explain this to you. I didn't post on my profile like hey guys, I can drive yeah like why do I have to explain to you why I can't drive?
Speaker 1:yeah, yeah, yeah, which is sometimes like really hard to always have to. Yeah, I guess they just see a person in a wheelchair on a dating app and they presume that they're paralyzed yeah obviously I'm not paralyzed, yeah, so I think it's that stereotype of someone being in a wheelchair. So they just got. They must be paralyzed, yeah, which is just such an interesting way of thinking.
Speaker 2:Yeah it just sounds like a deep societal kind of, if that's like a common experience. But wow, yeah, I didn't even really like I didn't even know. I should say I didn't know that that was a common, preconceived idea. I feel like that would be like, like I just said, like exhausting having to be, like having to explain yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it really is. And, like I said before, I've really got to, like you know, be in the right space to be on the dating apps, because you know it's not an easy ride. I mean, I'm sure lots of people feel the same. You know you've got a. How you going? What do you do for work? Like kind of annoying small talk?
Speaker 2:it'd actually be interesting to hear from you so about, I guess, the unspoken ease from your perspective of not having your body questioned yeah, I feel like a lot easier knowing that like we're not knowing, but like having confidence in other people, not questioning does this still function? The same as normal? My previous having that question would be kind of be like is it really of?
Speaker 1:significance like why are?
Speaker 2:you asking that, yeah, yeah, like it's definitely something that would be a lot easier.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah and I guess, like when you're on dating apps, do you guys ever make weird assumptions about what you're looking for?
Speaker 2:no I actually like upon reflection, oh, like they would ask like, oh, what are you looking for, or whatever. But like it was never assumed, or it was kind of just like well, I don't know if this is just my personal experience, but it was pretty much just like general chat and then then if it did progress, it was kind of we would have been on the same wavelength, like it was never, just like.
Speaker 1:Straight up.
Speaker 2:It was never really like spoken about yeah. Like it wasn't commonly spoken about.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow, okay, yeah, right what about from your perspective.
Speaker 1:I guess I get a bit of both from column A and column B in regards to people presuming that I'm just there for fun sex, fun sex, not boring. No, no, not vanilla. I do honestly think that some people were just more thinking that I wanted a friendship. Oh yeah, not very common. I'm just thinking a couple of like interactions over the recently that were kind of like more I would love to be your friend. Well, they didn't explicitly say that, but like more more on the realms of just the way they were kind of wearing things. Yeah, it was just kind of like a bit.
Speaker 1:I'm not saying like friendly, yeah, I was gonna say not because it was like friendly, I guess initially, what like they were kind of friendly or a bit too intense, like on the other end of the spectrum, yeah. But yeah, I just remember like these couple of conversations are kind of in my head at the moment that were just very I'll talk to you because you're the girl in the wheelchair, that's how I felt. But you know, once again, I could have been interpreting that completely wrong and then that's maybe just how they they speak yeah, okay, they just want to be your friend we've briefly spoken about this in this episode, so um, but let's.
Speaker 1:I think it'd be good to unpack a little bit further with us like comments like you're so inspiring versus you're so hot, and decoding the compliments and the microaggressions that they kind of entail. Yeah, they're very much on different ends of the spectrum. In regards to like you're so inspiring, it's like oh, poor girl, good on you for being on a dating app, good on you for having photos with your friends they wouldn't have commented that if you weren't in a wheelchair, which is why it's like okay, so more obvious, so much more obvious and so much more unnecessary yes, in general it was either just like a generic compliment, like around appearance we've just got a few more little dot points here hit me.
Speaker 1:So, and how expectations or lack of can shape self-worth in dating. Like obviously we discussed that throughout this episode, perceiving me as inspiring, that can really affect you. So not so much now, like now I just use it as content for um tiktok. Like affecting my self-worth, like the fact that if people are crushing my wheelchair or I'm matching me because of my wheelchair and it would definitely like take a toll on myself and how I see myself in a relationship, and then I kind of have that loop of like that's why I'm single and that's why I can't no, I can't, or that's why I'm like, not in a relationship. So I guess that kind of cycle affects me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, that makes sense. Having those thoughts would 100% be like, okay, like, is this the reason? Which it's obviously not. It's just like a big cycle.
Speaker 1:From this episode. I guess it does show my resilience that you know I keep going back to dating apps and not finding anyone, but I'm still swiping away from all the stations and I guess it lies that the frustration that comes with being on a dating app with a physical disability. I think I don't give myself enough credit for the fact that it's not as straightforward as an able-bodied person would experience, but it's still my experience. Like I said before, I still have fun on these apps. It's still frustrating and exhausting at times, like you, like you mentioned, I do think so. Being on this episode was great to kind of show our different experiences and how people are just so fixated on getting to know the reason behind someone being in a wheelchair, which is just so unfair.
Speaker 2:No, unfair probably not the right word. There's more to you than than a wheelchair, so I feel like in some sense it is unfair. And I feel like, especially if you've already given them the time of day and been like, yeah, addressed their question, and then they're still going back. It's like okay, ask me something else. Like yeah, yeah, I feel like it was it. Well, it is and was, because we just did that very important to like talk about, like different experiences, even just to like grow each other's understanding and being like okay, that's not okay, or this is a common experience here or what's the different experiences that we're experiencing, things like that.
Speaker 2:But also I think it's like so important to acknowledge like I know you touched about heaps throughout the episode like it is also so important to acknowledge how much like growth and like self-confidence and self-worth you've done as a human to like get to the point where you are now, which is like a shame that you obviously weren't at that point five years ago, but it is so important to acknowledge that. So go you, you.
Speaker 1:No, thank you, I really appreciate it and I think, like having Soph on here, it just shows the power of having an honest friendship and unpacking this stuff with, just because I absolutely adore Soph and she knows me pretty well, so it's good to have someone who you can talk through this stuff with.
Speaker 2:I thought talking about experiences and like just life in general, is so important. It's how you learn, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Very lucky, like just life in general is so important. It's how you learn, absolutely very. And just one final little question for you. So if this episode was the only thing someone had ever heard, what would you want them to take away from it?
Speaker 2:oh, that's a good question. This episode was the only thing someone had ever heard, but what I wanted to take away from it I feel like I said this a lot, not that you asked this exact same question, but like I feel like this just goes with everything, and I know I would have said it probably on the last episode. Actually, I am always certain I said on the last episode, even though we're talking about something completely different, it's, I feel, like the power of assumption, like don't assume things. Don't assume things that about somebody, but also don't assume that things are okay to ask just because somebody has something different about them, whether it is a disability or like anything that doesn't give. If somebody is different to you, that doesn't give you the power to ask questions that you wouldn't typically ask somebody. Does that make sense? Don't assume anything. Don't assume someone anything about anybody, or questions?
Speaker 1:Absolutely no. That's a great place to finish off and, once again, thank you so much, Sue, for being on this episode today. Hey, thank you. I'm sure she'll jump on in future episodes. Enjoy your holiday. I'll speak to you soon.
Speaker 2:I love you Eli, Love you Cheers.
Speaker 1:And that's it for today's ride. Thanks for rolling with me. Make sure you're following a really good chat on Instagram for all the latest updates and, if you're loving the chat, don't forget to follow the podcast on your favourite streaming platform. Stay safe, everyone. I'll catch you next time.
