43. Stigma, Support & Speaking Up with Josef Bandera

Some conversations are polite. This one is useful.

I’m joined by Josef Bandera, a Perth-based author and disability advocate, to talk about what inclusion and disability rights actually look like in real life. Josef shares why he’s proud of his disability, how stigma still boxes people in, and why having a voice isn’t a bonus, it’s a basic right.

We get into the reality of support work, what makes a good support worker, what happens when workers are under-trained, and why consent matters, especially when social media comes into play.

We also talk participant choice, asking better questions when hiring support, and why support should align with the person, not the worker’s preferences.

And we don’t ignore accessibility, from footpath gradients to “accessible” spaces that miss the mark.

If you care about disability inclusion, the NDIS, or understanding what respectful support actually looks like, this conversation gives you something to take away.

Check out Josef’s work: Book | Instagram

Thanks so much for listening to A Wheelie Good Chat! Your support means the world.

Follow along on Instagram: @awheeliegoodchat | @sam.bamalama 

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Transcript

Acknowledgement And Setting The Tone

Sam 0:00

I want to start this episode of A Wheelie Good Chat by acknowledging that I'm recording on Whadjuk Noongar country. I pay my respects to the Elders past, present and emerging. Always was. Always will be Aboriginal land. I'm your host, Sam Cole, and this is A Wheelie Good Chat, where I get real about life with a disability and everything in between. Yes, even the not so PG stuff. I live with a condition called dystonia, and I started this podcast to break stigma and share the things we, as a society, don't talk enough about. Today I'm joined by Josef, who is an author, advocate, and someone who is really passionate about inclusion, disability rights, and making sure people with disabilities have a voice. In this episode, we talk about his books, his experience living with a disability, the importance of good support workers. And some of the barriers that people with a disability still face in everyday life. We also chat about advocacy, accessibility and why it's so important for people to ask questions, speak up and be heard. So let's get into it. Thank you so much to Josef for joining me on this episode today. Hi, Josef. How are you going?

Josef 1:20

Good, Sam. It's good to be on here.

Sam 1:22

I really appreciate you reaching out to me and taking the time to you know, tell me briefly about yourself in the initial message.

Josef 1:30

Why I wanted to come on this podcast is I thought it looked inspirational. I think it is excellent that someone with a disability is doing something like this. I think it's actually quite emotional and beautiful.

Sam 1:40

Thank you. That's very nice to say that. Do you mind telling the listeners bit about yourself?

Josef 1:45

So I'm a young man with a disability, so I am based in Perth.

Sam 1:50

Mm-hmm.

Josef 1:50

I'm originally from the southwest of Western Australia, in Bunbury, so, yep. Grew up in the Southwest and I am a, you know, a passionate person.

Sam 1:59

Yeah, we love passion on this podcast.

Josef 2:02

I also feel there's a lot of changes in the NDIS and disability space currently happening, and a lot of global changes, um, with the current global crisis and what's going on in the world is affecting people with disabilities, with the current fuel price issues and you know, just other barriers that are happening in the global world. Which I think are affecting people with disabilities and there's been a lot of bad in the media with different things happening with disabilities and people with disabilities. Bad things have happened to them in regularly, not just in Western Australia, but Australia wide. I've noticed there has been a lot of changes and lot of issues with different things and injustices and stuff.

Support Workers Social Media And Consent

Sam 2:46

And so what kind of, things and injustice have you seen?

Josef 2:49

I saw a report the other day where support workers ill-trained and not trained in supporting people with disabilities. I see this happen all the time where there's participants left in terrible situations where they're left to, um, defend themselves'cause they've got incompetent support workers. And, you know, I've got a lot of good support workers and I know a lot of good people out there. And I've learned a lot from a lot of people and I think social media is one of the best things that have ever happened because I see a lot of people with disabilities blogging and talking about their lives, and I think that's brilliant. But there is also a boundary of where if they cannot understand. Some people believe it's a bit taking advantage of. I think if you are verbal and you have understanding of what's going on, if you don't understand what's going on and your support workers filming you, it may be a bit of a challenge.

Sam 3:42

So the consent around being on their social media and that, is that kind of like the conflict of what you're speaking of?

Josef 3:50

Yeah, the conflict of social media.'cause I know it comes up a lot in social media'cause I'm on TikTok and Facebook and stuff I see. Um, what goes on.

Sam 4:00

Have you ever been in that situation where you know a support worker was filming you and you felt uncomfortable? Or is it quite like a friendly relationship you have with your workers?

Josef 4:10

I have a friendly relationship with my workers.

Sam 4:13

That's really important to have, or I feel that's a really, valuable relationship to have, especially if you're seeing them quite regularly. You don't want just anyone coming into your life. You wanna have people who you feel safe with and, and you can actually see them outside your hours and they're someone who you would actually be friends with and can actually connect with on a deeper level, rather than just having someone just come and go in your life, if that makes sense.

Writing Books And Telling Stories

Josef 4:35

Exactly.

Sam 4:36

Yeah and I remember in your initial, message to me that you mentioned that you had written a couple of books.

Josef 4:42

I've written books on disability and disability rights. Yeah. They're both about inclusion, one's about, the deep diving into support workers, the good, the bad, and whatever else we support.

Sam 4:54

That's amazing. What inspired you to write those books initially?

Josef 4:58

What inspired me to write them was because I saw an opportunity for people with disabilities to tell their story. So I did that for an organisation called Book Incubator. Kate, she's a lady from the Southwest and she does like therapy to teach people. And you know, I wanted to tell my story and wanted to hear other people's stories. Yeah, it was a very interesting time.

Sam 5:20

What was the writing of the book process like for you?

Josef 5:23

It was a very good opportunity. Um, so I got people together. I started writing concepts about my book.

Sam 5:30

So you started off with like an idea that you had?

Josef 5:33

Yeah, so I wrote that on my iPad and then I sent it to get it edited and then the process of writing about,'cause there's things that I couldn't put in there because bad things have happened and other things.

Sam 5:44

So was that more for keeping yourself safe from the implications if you released it?

Josef 5:50

Yes.

Sam 5:51

Yeah. So that must have been quite tricky for you to not feel that you can leave everything in. There were certain things you had to take out.

Josef 5:58

Mm-hmm.

Sam 5:59

I'm sure the listeners would love to know where can people find your books?

Josef 6:04

The one that I advertise is Josef, so just J-O-S-E-F. And you can find it on Amazon and other, networks.

Sam 6:10

Beautiful. That's so good that you have a passion and you're following it through. And it also sounds as though you're very advocacy driven.

Josef 6:17

Yeah, I'm very advocacy driven.

Sam 6:20

What has your experiences been like living with a disability?

Josef 6:23

It's been challenging. There's a lot of stigma with people with disabilities.

Sam 6:27

Yeah. And what kind of?

Josef 6:28

Stigma with having a disability and, think people see people with disabilities as it, can be challenging.'Cause I think with disabilities, sometimes, you know you need extra support with stuff.

Sam 6:39

And so the stigma that you have felt was people putting you into a box.

Josef 6:45

Yes.

Sam 6:45

And that must be really hard for you

Josef 6:47

I feel very honored, like to have a disability. I feel honored.

Sam 6:50

Okay. Yeah. Do you mind telling me a bit more about that?

Josef 6:54

Because feel it's given me a lot of opportunities to advocate and to meet people, and wouldn't have met people like you, you know? And, I think we need people out there saying what they wanna say. I think a lot of people shut down, and I see this in agencies.

Sam 7:08

That's a really beautiful I guess way to frame it, that disability has given you this great opportunity and, you may have not written a book if you didn't have a disability and that kind of thing.

Josef 7:18

And I wouldn't have had the social opportunities that I've had, with my programs and I'm gonna shout them out.'cause I would like to, because there's few people in particularly that I would like to shout out. I don't wanna sound rude, but there's a few people I think would be good to acknowledge what they have done.

Sam 7:34

Of course. Absolutely.

Josef 7:35

I've got a few programs. Yeah.

Sam 7:37

And what are these programs?

Josef 7:38

I do social programs, so I've got a program called Lightbulb, which is a social program and I do social things.

Sam 7:45

Beautiful. And how often do you do that?

Josef 7:47

I do that once a week.

Sam 7:49

It's so good that you have that social aspect, meeting people and getting out and about. That's really important.

Josef 7:56

Yeah.

Sam 7:56

And so what kind of things do you do with them?

Josef 7:59

I do different social things with them, and do activities and stuff. I was only thinking about this, the other day like with them, they'll get the participants together and get them to choose the activities.

Sam 8:09

That's amazing. Okay. So it's not just the manager or whoever is creating the, the plan of what's gonna happen on that week. It's involved the participants, is that what you're called? Sorry.

Josef 8:21

Yeah,

Sam 8:21

Yeah. Okay. The participants are involved in what they wanna do, which is so good. That is amazing. I feel like more organisations should follow that. That's really great. And how long have you been with them for?

Josef 8:33

A few years now. Yeah

Sam 8:35

So you appreciate them and you really enjoy your day out with them.

Josef 8:39

Yeah.

Sam 8:40

Yeah. Nice. That's so important and you have friends who go to Lightbulb as well.

Josef 8:44

Yeah. Exactly. And I'm also involved with the choir as well. I also do an all abilities choir as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah

Sam 8:51

Nice. So you love to sing? And Yeah. Well, that's amazing. So you obviously are a very sociable person it sounds like. That's so great. You mentioned before that living with a disability is very challenging for you, but on the other hand, you are also very appreciative of your disability. and so I guess, what do you wish more people understood?

Josef 9:14

What I wish more people understood?

Sam 9:16

Yeah. About, disability in general?

Josef 9:18

What I wish more people understood was about inclusion and people's rights. Yeah. But also I feel like some people see people with disabilities as you know, they can't do that. They're not capable when there's a lot of them that are building good careers out there and are quite successful business people and are doing amazing things in the world.

Sam 9:39

Absolutely. So just this kind of, once again, stereotype, putting people in a box that, that people with disabilities live very, different lives. Well, sorry, let me say that again. People with disabilities do live different lives, but they're still inclusive, they're still sociable, they're still working. So you feel as though the wider society is very much not seeing people with a disability as being able to work.

Josef 10:03

I also feel like sometimes with people with more complex disabilities, they're sort of also looked a bit upon, not in a great way, I feel like sometimes people are shut down for having a disability and you can't have a voice. Sometimes I feel like people don't have a voice'cause they're not given opportunities to say how they feel. I feel like there's some old fashioned values where parents are the ones making choices, not the participants. I still think there's some people in the sector that have that same views with people with disabilities that they are valued in society.

Sam 10:39

Right. So organisations that you've been a part of or have just heard of in passing that they still kind of have that I guess view.

Josef 10:47

Families are involved and not participant.

Sam 10:50

Yeah. Okay.

Josef 10:51

It's family business, not participant business which isn't right.

What Good Support Really Means

Sam 10:54

No. That's an interesting way of framing it, the fact that it should be participants, what they wanna do and their decisions and where they wanna go. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure Lightbulb is it all adults?

Josef 11:06

Yes,

Sam 11:07

Yeah. Yeah.

Josef 11:08

They're very good at what they do. I feel like sometimes support are not. They don't know. They're not living in the shoes of people with disabilities. They're supporting us, but I don't think they always know what people actually go through the challenges,

Sam 11:23

So like the day-to-day stuff that might get unspoken about, and that's a really big challenge.

Josef 11:29

Don't wanna be weird, but I think sometimes people find being a support worker quite confronting. like I see on ads, I do not do this. I will not do this support. I will not support people in this. And I'm like, what?

Sam 11:41

So as in like your feeling that people wanna be support workers, but they're kind of picking and choosing what. That they'll do. Yeah. And you feel as though that's not right?

Josef 11:52

No, I don't agree with it at all. I think, you know, you shouldn't, you can be selective, but I feel you shouldn't. If you're doing support work, you shouldn't.

Sam 12:00

You shouldn't feel as though the worker can say, oh, I wouldn't wanna do personal care, but I'll go out, and drink with them kind of thing.

Josef 12:07

Yeah. I know it's not about you, but I don't know if you, have you ever experienced that with support?

Sam 12:12

I guess I'm lucky in that way because I would say no, I haven't experienced that. With my supports, I'm very fortunate in them being friends.

Josef 12:21

I think that's an awesome thing. I think that is really good. I think that is great because that's how they should be. I see people who's like that. I see'em as like family. Like I have support to leave and I still contact them and reach out to them.

Sam 12:35

Yep. So you still have that friendly relationship after they move away or something like that, so

Josef 12:42

Exactly right.

Sam 12:42

Yeah. And that's so important to have because for me, having that connection is so valuable. I've got a bunch of amazing girls and it sounds as though you are very similar in that way.

Josef 12:52

Yeah, I love support support workers as well.

Sam 12:56

Yeah. And I can imagine you being very good good at speaking about a range of things with them, and kind of telling them what's the go and what's not the go.

Josef 13:05

I love support workers and I like also like reviewing support workers when I'm out in the community.

Sam 13:10

Oh reviewing. So how do you review, just randomly?

Josef 13:13

I'll just watch them.

Sam 13:14

Okay. Okay. Is it kinda like a mental thing you do or do you kind of like say it out loud? Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Josef 13:20

I'm very judgmental, if someone's not getting supported properly and I think their support worker is lazy, I say it. I don't say it to their face. I'll tell my mother and I'll tell other people what my views are.

Sam 13:30

because it is so sad to see a person, not being supported in the right way, or they may be ignored or the, the worker may be on their phone or whatever it is.

Josef 13:39

I don't like that.

Sam 13:40

No, and it's so horrible to see.

Josef 13:43

I have amazing team of support, mostly girls. I've got two guys, but yeah, mostly girls and they're amazing.

Sam 13:49

That's so good. And are they all from Lightbulb?

Josef 13:52

No, no, they're for another company called Fisher. So yeah, the guy I actually hoping he'll listen to this podcast. So the guy's name Steve and he's a good bloke. And he's someone that's been in the industry for a long time, like 30 something years in the disability sector. Very, very good man. Very awesome character, and he's very passionate about what he does. I told a few people I was doing this podcast and they'll said, wow. Because I think a lot of people are too nervous to say what they actually feel.

Sam 14:19

Which is sad, not being comfortable enough to, I guess, share your experience or talk about something that society kind of shies away from, in a way.

Josef 14:28

I don't see why people should shy away from things cause I feel it. know people are into privacy, but I feel people need to be educated on what's going on.

Sam 14:37

Absolutely. I agree. I guess from my perspective, I feel that society has this mentality, like you said before, that, people with a disability just fit in a box, stay home, just twiddle their thumbs, just watch TV all day, but that's really far from the truth for so many people all over the world.

Josef 14:54

Yeah.

Sam 14:54

Yeah. It sounds as though you know, you've currently got a great team of workers with you. And previously, you have kind of had to call people out when they weren't really listening to you.

Josef 15:04

Yeah. But I feel if you're the right person in the industry, I think it is a great industry to get involved with.

Sam 15:11

And when you say the right person, I guess, comes back to your values and, that kind of thing.

Josef 15:17

But it's also the willing to be involved in, you know, your client's goal.

Advocacy Achievements And Future Plans

Sam 15:21

Yes. And that's so important, isn't it? And so what kind of advocacy have you?

Josef 15:26

I've done a lot of things. I sat on a made Bunbury the most accessible regional city in Australia. So it was called Marcia. And that was with Dr. Adam Johnson. Adam was a PhD candidate down in Bunbury and he was working on accessibility. He did a research project with people with disabilities and I was involved with that.

Sam 15:45

Oh wow. And so Bunbury, is Bunbury still the most accessible?

Josef 15:49

I dunno if they ever got the standards for it, but he was trying to make it.

Sam 15:53

And how long ago was that, that you were a part of that?

Josef 15:55

Seven years ago.

Sam 15:57

Wow, that's so awesome. Yep.

Josef 16:00

So I did that and then I also did, I've also been involved with a number of other projects.

Sam 16:05

What are those projects if you are comfortable sharing?

Josef 16:08

I was involved with setting up a club called WA iSports. I was a founding member on the board of directors for that. So we started, I think it was in 2017 we founded that and it's still running now. I'm not involved anymore, I was also, have also been a finalist in the WA Young Achieve Award.

Sam 16:27

That's amazing.

Josef 16:28

I was also a finalist in that, um, unfortunately didn't win, but I was a finalist and one of my biggest joys was when we won the Regional Community Group of the Year for the Regional Achievement Awards. I was pretty pumped about that when we won that award.

Sam 16:44

That's amazing and to be nominated for awards is, I'm sure there's a criteria you have to meet, it just shows how passionate you are and how driven you are.

Josef 16:54

But to be a finalist in two categories. And I also won an award for my book, an international award for my book. Yeah. That's the achievement um I'm very interested in you know different things and stuff Yeah.

Sam 17:07

Following on from about your advocacy, why is advocacy and advocating for disability so important to you?

Josef 17:14

I love it. Yeah, I love it.

Sam 17:15

Just as simple as you loving it is a good enough reason to do it. Yeah.

Josef 17:20

I just love it and I

Sam 17:21

Yeah.

Josef 17:22

Helping people out.

Sam 17:23

That's great. And that shows, being nominated for all these amazing awards and recognition just shows how passionate you are. I feel if you weren't as passionate and as you said, loving it as much as you are, I'm sure that that wouldn't show in your work. So that's incredible that you've had such a passion for it. Are you on any boards at the moment?

Josef 17:44

No, not doing anything at the moment. Trying to start some businesses working. So I'm gonna do some marketing for a company and I'm also trying to start a coffee delivery business.

Sam 17:53

Oh wow. It seems as though you are always kind of working on something in the background.

Josef 17:58

So I do that.

Sam 17:59

Yep. Amazing. And so what are you most passionate about?

Josef 18:02

Um, inclusion and people's rights and understanding people and the human behaviour is very fascinating to me as well. And I find people interesting.

Sam 18:11

Yeah.

Josef 18:12

People may be a bit judgy about this, but it's, it's sometimes hard to know what people's capacity is. That's a very interesting area that I'm often looking at is capacity. It can be hard to know what people's capacity is sometimes.

Sam 18:26

Is that building relationships with people?

Josef 18:29

Can also be hard to create friendships and you know, people have sensory needs and different needs.

Sam 18:35

So understanding people's capacity and where they're at can influence how to build relationships.

Josef 18:41

Yeah.

Sam 18:41

Yeah. So inclusion, that's a major passion for you.

Josef 18:46

Yes.

Sam 18:47

Is that something that you've always had a passion for inclusion or is it just as you've gotten older?

Josef 18:53

Mainly when I left school. I had to do a lot of advocacy at school because school was a great opportunity, but there was challenges. I feel at sometimes I wanted to get into leadership at school, but they were against that. They didn't really want people with disabilities doing advocacy work or, um, leadership roles.

Sam 19:11

And how did that make you feel at the time?

Josef 19:13

Disgusted. Where's that group of people getting advocates for? No, they're not. I think a lot of younger people are getting better at understanding.

Sam 19:21

Yeah. And being more open to different abilities.

Josef 19:24

Yeah.

Sam 19:25

Within a school, within a workplace. Which is so important for anyone, no matter what your ability is, to feel included.

Josef 19:32

Yeah.

Sam 19:32

It sounds as though, you've achieved so much and you are going to achieve so much already, which is amazing.

Josef 19:38

Yeah, I also was fortunate to speak at the. It was a disability conference last year. Um, they had it over here in WA, down Fremantle.

Sam 19:46

And what kind of things did you speak about there?

Josef 19:48

It was about my book and about the story of my book and stuff. So I spoke at that last year and that was a really good opportunity. I've gone to UWA before and spoken to people there.

Sam 19:58

Majority of those talks in regards to your book again?

Josef 20:01

No, I've also spoken to, um, social work students and different students in Canada as well.

Sam 20:07

Oh, wow. Okay.

Josef 20:09

I've got a connection in Canada. Yeah. So I do that on, on Zoom.

Sam 20:13

So it always comes down to who you know, not what you know, isn't it?

Josef 20:16

Exactly. Yeah but like you I'm honored to meet you.

Sam 20:19

Mm-hmm.

Josef 20:19

A real honor, it's actually an honor, cause you know, to have people like you doing the podcast is very honorary. I was quite nervous to ask to come on this podcast because I was a bit scared, I was a bit nervous about it. And you know I thought this looked cool and I absolutely love the name of the podcast. I think it's a very sweet name.

Sam 20:40

Thank you. No, and it It's been great meeting you and I really appreciate your time. I hope it wasn't as scary as sending the initial.

Josef 20:48

I loved it. I love it.

Sam 20:49

That's great.

Relationships Taboo And Built Accessibility

Josef 20:50

I love talking to people.

Sam 20:51

I can really hear how passionate you are about, inclusion and, advocacy. What do you want listeners to take away from this chat today?

Josef 21:00

I just want people to know to stand up for their rights and to also, if you've got people with disabilities listening to ask questions. Families to ask questions when you are interviewing support workers, ask what they've done in experience or if they've not had an experience, train them up on how you should be supported. A big thing is ask for what you want. And if you are a support worker or someone wanting to get in the industry, ask questions, ask for documents. If you want to know things, ask. You know, you are supporting them. You should know. I mean, it's good to learn things, but you should know what you are getting yourself into.

Sam 21:36

Absolutely I think that was very well said actually. Having that voice is so important, isn't it? One final question for you, Josef, today, what are you most proud of?

Josef 21:46

What am I proud of? My family. I'm very grateful for my family. Well, winning my book awards and stuff. I'm very proud of. But I, I'm very fortunate for my family, my mother and my sister and my nana.

Sam 21:58

Yeah. Beautiful.

Josef 22:00

Very beautiful women. They've taught me a lot of lessons in life.

Sam 22:03

Mm-hmm.

Josef 22:04

And my sister-in-law and family members. Yeah.

Sam 22:06

Oh, beautiful. It sounds as though they're very influential people on you.

Josef 22:11

Yeah.

Sam 22:11

Is there anything else that you would like to add to this conversation today, Josef?

Josef 22:16

Uh, just about, people there's a lot of good people in the world.

Sam 22:20

Yeah. There, there is definitely a lot of good people in the world. Absolutely, it's just sometimes finding those good people, isn't it?

Josef 22:26

Yeah. And the big thing is just to be able to get understandings on why people do certain things. It's very interesting.

Sam 22:34

Yeah, it sounds as though you are very much always kind of wanting to know the greater depths of people's understanding and understand why they doing certain things.

Josef 22:44

Exactly right. I also find it interesting to learn about people. I feel like sometimes people, uh, I don't wanna sound weird, but I feel like sometimes people are not. What's the right word. I feel like some people think people with disabilities are. It's hard to explain. I feel like there's a lot of taboo subjects in the disability. I'm not trying to be rude, and I know it's wrong to say this, but I think in particularly I feel like with relationships that there's a lot of taboo subjects and I feel like there's a lot of subjects that people don't feel people disability should be hearing.

Sam 23:16

They're minimising their experience around relationships and that side of things.

Josef 23:21

Yeah. But also I feel like there's a lot of different things out there.

Sam 23:25

To support relationships?

Josef 23:26

Yeah and just support you know, where I've had situations where, so people, I know, I believe are a little bit isolated by their support workers and their support don't want them to do things because they don't feel they should or are too lazy for them to go and do stuff.

Sam 23:42

In the way of like enhancing their connections and like relationship? Yeah.

Josef 23:48

Exactly right. And I think some people think it's a too hard basket to take their participants out because they think it's too hard, which I don't agree with. There is a lot of social barriers for people in the community and I feel like it's unfortunate that some things were built in the 1940s and 1950s. It's wrong how some buildings and in particularly for people in wheelchairs. I've got pretty good balance, but coming from the country to the city, I believe the foot paths up here are less accessible because I feel like there's too much gradient with, you know, hills and stuff, and I see people struggling with going up on'em, and I'm like, why would these idiots build footpaths like this when they're not accessible? If you're gonna be building a footpath, you should be consulting with people with disabilities on how the gradients, with the footpaths.

Sam 24:34

Absolutely. There's so many times when you go somewhere and they're like, ah. This is not accessible far from it. And lucky, I don't have a big wheelchair, so my friends can just tip me back and go up somewhere. It's not always that easy. But it should be easy. You shouldn't have to call up somewhere and go, oh, is this place accessible?

Josef 24:53

No you don't. I think sometimes people don't realise when they build cafes, restaurants I know it's a big outlay for them, it will get them more customers.

Sam 25:02

Absolutely.

Josef 25:03

We need accessibility getting into buildings and it's hard. Because it's not just for people in wheelchair. A lot of the senior citizens also struggle with their Zimmer frames. Put basic lifts and stuff in. I think some people believe certain accessibilities just use that as a store room.

Sam 25:20

It really minimises people with a disability going places and we're like an afterthought, especially when the toilet is used as a store room or the change room has boxes in it. And like oh, you weren't expecting someone with a disability to, use your store.

Josef 25:36

Going back to the accessible bathrooms. I like to go into accessible bathrooms because I find them more calming and less noisy and stuff, and I go into them and I'm like, why are you using that as a store room? You're an idiot.

Sam 25:47

Yeah, absolutely.

Josef 25:49

I'm like, what the hell are you doing? Well, anyway, sorry for ranting on for this morning.

Sam 25:54

You absolutely did not rant on at all. It was an amazing conversation. Thank you so much Josef for coming on this podcast and having a chat. I've really enjoyed it and I've learned a lot from you.

Josef 26:07

Thank you, Sam.

Sam 26:10

And that's it for today's ride. Thanks for rolling with me. Make sure you're following A Wheelie Good chat on Instagram for all the latest updates. And if you're loving the chat, don't forget to follow the podcast on your favourite streaming platform. Stay safe everyone. I'll catch you next time.